A few Questions...

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A few Questions...

Post by Simon Molendinarius on Fri Feb 12, 2016 9:20 am

The domain additions seem very interesting, but I would like some clarification.

First, are you able to issue these types of commands only if you have the domain background?  After all, I don't see why throwing a celebration would be limited to people having domain.

Second, does having domain eliminate the need for influence within your personal sphere?  I have noticed you have allowed such things as building monuments or taxing people.  So does that mean if I have a large domain I can tax the people without using influence to get the local nobles to agree?  What it someone has already used influence to put a halt on all tax collections? Can you simply override that restriction inside of your domain?  Can I issue orders to build a Church without using the proper church influence required to open a new church?  What if someone is blocking the building of a new church with influence?  Can I just order people to build one anyway?

As for things like populate/depopulate...shouldn't that be handled less mechanically?  Rumors and the feelings of the common people are complex things.  There are many things to be done to encourage people or discourage people, and not everything works.  I don't like this being so easy as to simply spend an action point and its done.  It removes a large element of thought.  No one will need to think about how they are maintaining things because all they have to do is spend an action point and its done.  We have multiple influences designed to effect popular opinion, and of course the common folk will respond to plot events as well.  It seems very two dimensional to remove this element and replace it with an action point system that is so automatic.

It also should be noted that if you are an influence character who doesn't craft or meditate, there isn't really much need for action points anymore (well, you need 1 to feed and 1 to travel, but everyone gets 2 by default).

Just want to say again that I like the direction this is going.  More domain control is a great idea.  I just want to make sure I am on the same page here, and hopefully address a few of my minor concerns.

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Re: A few Questions...

Post by Admin on Fri Feb 12, 2016 12:09 pm

Simon Molendinarius wrote:The domain additions seem very interesting, but I would like some clarification.

First, are you able to issue these types of commands only if you have the domain background?  After all, I don't see why throwing a celebration would be limited to people having domain. - You can do it without the domain action , however it's a free action on your domain. Normally this would cost a lot of coin or influence or both with a domain action you just seem to have the right amount of pull to get it done.

Second, does having domain eliminate the need for influence within your personal sphere?  I have noticed you have allowed such things as building monuments or taxing people.  So does that mean if I have a large domain I can tax the people without using influence to get the local nobles to agree?  What it someone has already used influence to put a halt on all tax collections? Can you simply override that restriction inside of your domain?  Can I issue orders to build a Church without using the proper church influence required to open a new church?  What if someone is blocking the building of a new church with influence?  Can I just order people to build one anyway? Influence actions trump domain actions, domain actions can start the building process of buildings however influence actions can be used to speed these up or slow them down. Building a cathedral would normally take decades with influence actions you can ensure these things get done faster with more hands on deck.

As for things like populate/depopulate...shouldn't that be handled less mechanically?  Rumors and the feelings of the common people are complex things.  There are many things to be done to encourage people or discourage people, and not everything works.  I don't like this being so easy as to simply spend an action point and its done.  It removes a large element of thought.  No one will need to think about how they are maintaining things because all they have to do is spend an action point and its done.  We have multiple influences designed to effect popular opinion, and of course the common folk will respond to plot events as well.  It seems very two dimensional to remove this element and replace it with an action point system that is so automatic.This isn't automatic, domain actions are long term plan type actions. I'll clarify this in the write up shortly, you cannot just snap your fingers and suddenly new buildings start cropping up

It also should be noted that if you are an influence character who doesn't craft or meditate, there isn't really much need for action points anymore (well, you need 1 to feed and 1 to travel, but everyone gets 2 by default).Probably true, gives you more time to reflect on the simple things in life.

Just want to say again that I like the direction this is going.  More domain control is a great idea.  I just want to make sure I am on the same page here, and hopefully address a few of my minor concerns.

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Re: A few Questions...

Post by Guest on Fri Feb 12, 2016 12:15 pm

Most of this is stuff that seems like valid concerns and I'm not going to address cause I'm an ST, but there is one point I'd address. The bit about action points not being useful beyond the 2 everyone needs. Influence uses don't cost action points anymore, this is true, but Background uses still do, and actions got cut back. They are more valuable now than before, not less. I, for one, can't actually use all the backgrounds I have access to every month anymore. This, I feel, is a feature not a bug.

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Re: A few Questions...

Post by Simon Molendinarius on Fri Feb 12, 2016 12:59 pm

Did you mean to say you aren't an ST or has there been a change that I am not aware of?

As for backgrounds, yes, I was only making a statement regarding characters who are mainly influence based.  However, since you raise the point...

Allies: Yes, may require an action point if you can find a use for these, however, Phil has states that Allies do not use action points, so unless this ruling changes the previous ruling form last month this is a non starter.

Alt Identity: No action required.
Arcane: No action required.
Clan Prestige: No action required.
Commerce: Already mentioned as needing an action point.
Conscripts: Requires an action to use.
Contacts: Requires an action to use.
Couriers:  Not really sure what this does in this game.  I have heard multiple interpretations.  But probably requires and action.
Domain: No action required. In fact if gives you actions.
Fame: No action required.
Generation: No action required.
Haven: No action required.
Herd: No action required. In fact its only purpose between months is to remove the action point required to feed.
Influence: No action required.
Mentor: Action Required
Military: Action Required
Network: No action required.
Occult Library: No action required aside from the action you already spent to do research.
Research Laboratory: No action required aside from the action you already spent to do research.
Resources: No action required.
Retainers: No action required.
Status: No action required.
Vassalage: No action required unless you are using this to mimic allies.

Doing a quick tally...if you have every background there is... There are only 6 action points worth of things to do with backgrounds (7 if we now have to count allies).
So if you have a path rating of at least 4, which we all know you have because of your Aura, you get 6 action points just with your main PC alone.  Having herd means you don't need to feed, so get one action point back.
In short, I have no idea how you could have too many backgrounds when you factor in your retainers actions as well.

This is obviously a quick rundown and I know that someone might want to make several military actions or use contacts in several different ways, but that doesn't become an issue unless you truly have every background in the game and the desire to use them every session.  And once you factor in the addition 10 actions points of your retainers, the problem fades completely.

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Re: A few Questions...

Post by Simon Molendinarius on Fri Feb 12, 2016 1:11 pm

That is also the least important point, so really this is just academic.

For Admin.  If I instruct my domain to build something but don't take the effort to bribe the earl, will that be taken into account, or will it just end up happening without issues as long as no one is actively blocking it?

This is a time of feudal control.  Building a castle would be seen as a provocation if you hadn't gotten permission.  Local lords might think you are making a move.  The sociopolitical ramifications of making changes are generally accounted for when using an influence, so I guess I am just hope that it will still be taken into account.  What I am hoping to avoid is having someone come into the game with nothing more than a 5 in Domain and start building castles and whatnot without dealing with the world that we all live in.

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Re: A few Questions...

Post by Guest on Fri Feb 12, 2016 1:21 pm

Yes, I meant I am not an st. Also, there are several issues with your assumptions above, which I largely won't bother to refute because they are based on your opinions regarding the possible uses for backgrounds which are more open to interpretation than you seem to believe. Also because to properly explain why I know that some of those things you've ruled as "No action required" have substantial action required, I'd have to use specific examples from my own downtimes. Suffice to say I maintain that I now have more backgrounds than actions to use them, and still feel that is a very good thing.

I also agree that is the least of the points you made, it was also the only one I felt was inaccurate. The rest I either agree with or have no opinion of.

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Re: A few Questions...

Post by Simon Molendinarius on Fri Feb 12, 2016 1:31 pm

If there is more flexibility in the use of backgrounds that information should not be kept private.  This game has made a point of sticking to book rules, up to almost making it a rule that influence actions had to come straight out of the books.  If you are using alternate interpretations then we should all be told what is possible.  Also, if you are being charged action points to use the items that I have marked as not needing action points then you are being charged while others are not.

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Re: A few Questions...

Post by Guest on Fri Feb 12, 2016 1:40 pm

Of course there is flexibility in use of backgrounds. There is flexibility in use of anything, for any purpose. A power to light people on fire might also burn a map. A background meant to provide downtime actions in a certain area might well require more than that many actions to rebuild after a battle. Depending on where you live and where they're located you might well need to spend actions to use your Haven or Herd, or at least include those places in your travel locations.

I have spent actions to use several of things you listed as needing no action. Not to mention maintaining and growing them. The point is, and has been all along, that in my opinion the changes to downtime actions have fixed something that was kind of broken by making downtime actions more valuable and important.

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Re: A few Questions...

Post by Simon Molendinarius on Fri Feb 12, 2016 1:45 pm

As I said, if you have spent action points on those items you have spend actions points that others, myself included have never been asked to spend.

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Re: A few Questions...

Post by Simon Molendinarius on Fri Feb 12, 2016 1:46 pm

And I never disagreed with the reduction in downtime actions being a good thing.  If anything I think there are still too many, but it definitely is better.

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Re: A few Questions...

Post by Guest on Fri Feb 12, 2016 1:54 pm

/shrug. If I've wasted downtime actions, I'm okay with that. If I've accidentally done something more complex than normally covered under the backgrounds in question and made it work by doing personal downtime actions to support it, I'm okay with that too. If other people have been "undercharged" on background uses either due to circumstance for them specifically, player error, or ST error, I'm okay with that too.

My point is that this change makes downtime actions all about backgrounds and personal activities, for yourself and your retainers, rather than the minutiae of maintaining a network of influences / empire. They also make reports a lot easier to write. I like that, and it sounds like you do too.

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