Elder powers for out of clan.

is it possible for a vampire to learn out of clan disciplines up to the elder level? many people have run it that you can only purchase elder disciplines if they are in clan for you. There are distinct counter-examples to this in the cannon, but it does help with game balance.
alternatively, if it is possible to learn out of clan disciplines, do you still require a teacher even for physical disciplines?

Why would you not need a teacher for physical disciplines? You need a teacher for non-elder physical disciplines...

Physical disciplines, meanting potence celerity and fortitude, can be purchased at out of clan costs without a teacher in dark ages. So it is possible that would include elder powers.

Is that in faith and fire somewhere? Cause I don't think we're using that rule...

ST confirmation please. I don't know what book its from. Ive been told by many that we are using that rule though....

Faith and Fire page 150, under the section learning disciplines, first line.

"Any vampire can learn the physical Disciplines - Celerity, FOrtitude, and Potence - and the three Disciplines fovored by her clan using only blood-intuition and practice."

Also worth noting: you can teach out of clan disciplines you have as long as you can get some of the blood from a clan that the discipline belongs to. Aka if I had obtenebration, and wanted to teach it to people, I could if I could give them a draught of lasombra blood first.

It is a dumb rule, very annoying for Brujah, but it is an idea that has been present in Vampire since the first edition of tabletop.

I stand corrected, and disappointed. That's crap.

Considering how common physical disciplines are, it isn't that hard to get them taught to you anyway. It doesn't change much really. It isn't evenly balanced amongst the clans, as pointed out for the brujah, but does reinforce the fact that vampires are physically powerful creatures.

However the way I see it, if you were planning to buy up multiple physical disciplines to elder levels, having them in clan is a really good way to save xp. Doesn't matter as much in a long game, but certainly matters over the course of up to 18 months or so.

Meh, it's 6 xp or 13% more expensive to buy an out of clan discipline to elder. That's one month of xp, less?

This criticism is all well and good, but I would like to know what the STs opinion is on my original question.

The physical disciplines do not require a teacher at all. Therefore you may purchase up to your gen max on each. Out of clans that are social or mental must be taught, however there are no rules stating you cannot learn these, provided you follow the rules such as gaining a blood trait of a clan that has it in-clan and a proficient tutor.

Of course there are other ways to learn disciplines without a trainer, but those ways are generally frowned upon by the vampire society as a whole.